What should I look for when shopping for a plane?

ryanpterry: What should I look for when shopping for a plane?
I want speed and a large useful load (like everyone.) This is obviously a first purchase. My maximum budget is around 60 or 70K. I prefer a low wing to a high wing. Any suggestions on a make or model in this price range would be helpful.

Also, I don’t know about overhaul time, ie, a good amount of time since an overhaul. What is the average amount of hours a plane can fly without being overhauled? How many hours will an airplane last (airframe and total time?)

Any other tips on what I should look for when shopping would be very helpful too.

I know I’m pressing my luck asking another question but here it goes. I hold a PPL with about 120hrs. Are there certain restrictions on the type of aircraft I can fly such as high performace, complex? If so, what do I need to do to be able to fly one. Do I just need a checkout?

Thanks in advance for everyone’s help.

Answers and Views:

Answer by Automation Wizard
A friend of mine made a Nevada corporation with some of his other friends so they could buy a plane together and all of them could share it.

If budget is an issue, you might want to consider that approach. Keep in mind that you will need to store it too….

Answer by kevinrtx
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A lot of people go for partial ownership these days since that way you can afford something better than you would alone.

It depends a lot on the sort of range you want it to be and what would give you the best fuel economy in that operating area and how often you would want it to be available plus your capacity to maintain it.

I suggest you start by deciding on the people capacity and then decide between a piston prop, turbo prop or turbo jet. The new so called “very light jets” are also the in thing now.

I personally like the Cessna caravans for the best load for price but not sure if you can find one for the budget you have.

As for citation X, Falcons and Learjets go for $ 10-30M so I guess they are out of question. If you don’t like Cessnas because of the wing configuration, go for a Moony bravo or push for a Beachcraft baron if you can.

Do you intent to fly it on your own and if so what is your type rating?

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Answer by Doggzilla
Ok, the best planes for that cost would probably be 1960’s and 1970’s mooney m20’s which are capable of 200mph, and cruising at 160 using less than 10gph. They have the same o-360 as a cessna 172, but it has a much more aerodynamic wing, and a kickass tail that has a strait leading edge and sloped trailing edge.
They have manual gear and flaps, but nobody even cares because they work really well and save 400lbs.

Youll need to get your advanced rating, but its worth it for the extra speed.
Oh, and the mooney can carry 4 180lb people 1000 miles and stay within weight and balance guidelines.
The only downside is that mooneys float at landing much longer because of that aerodynamic wing, so you cant come in with any extra speed or you risk overshooting the runway.

Answer by david t
one that flys

Answer by calnickel
For a low wing, four people and luggage, I would recomend a Piper Cherokee 180. It is easy to fly, fits in your price range, and should be easy and cheap to insure and maintain. A low end Mooney might be good too or a Cherokee Arrow, but these add constant speed and retractable gear. The added maintenance and insurance costs might be prohibitive (not to mention landing with the gear up). Also consider a share in an aircraft or joining a flying club. It reduces costs considerably if you don’t fly that many hours a year.

Although you can fly beyond TBO (on condition) it is borrowed time since many parts will be worn beyond limits when it is overhauled, costing more than if you just overhauled the engine.

Most aircraft depreciate by how much TBO they have left, so there isn’t much advantage financially either way. I would buy one that has 1/3 to half time sinice it will give you many hours and years to fly.

As for airframe time, I find it doesn’t matter if the aircraft has been taken care of. I find the best aircraft are ones where the hours match the age. A 40 year old aircraft with 2000 hours has spent a lot of time sitting, which is just as bad (sometimes worse) than a trainer with 10,000 hours on it in half the time. Before you buy make sure you have a prepurchase inspection done by an unbiased mechanic, the price is well worth it!

To find out how complex an aircraft you can fly, call an aviation insurance company to find out what they will insure you on. Insurance is the limiting factor for low time pilots. Jets and turboprops are definitely out.

Answer by bedroomeyes#1 s
a bus???

Answer by rayk469
Given the criteria you list, I think the Mooney M20 series is your best bet. Someone else mentioned this, and I agree. You don’t have a large useful load, but it is a great plane. I owned one years ago, and since retiring from professional flying, will probably give up my 400 series Cessnas and go back to Mooney. Time Between Overhaul for these planes is going to be 1,800 to 2,000 hours. The airframe should be good for 30,000 hours on most civilian planes. Look for a plane with about 5,000 hours or less total time, 1,000 to 1,200 hours on the engine (roughly mid-time) and no damage history. Be watchful of the avionics on board. Some of the older Mooneys will have some pre-historic stuff in the panel. Be aware, too, that the standard panel layout for the pilot’s instruments will probably not be there. No big deal, just have to get used to it. Your PPL is good for any recip that weighs less than 12,500 pounds gross. You’ll just have to get checked out in complex aircraft. Again, no big deal at all. The manual gear on the M20 is all but bullet proof. Just don’t forget to extend it. Make sure it is firmly locked into position under the panel and leave your cat’s eye open so you can easily see the gear-down light. I speak from experience, having almost landed mine without the gear handle being locked, and having stupidly closed the cat’s eye. Anyway, the insurance will be the booger for you. You may need to build some time with a check pilot to get that price down. It’s a great little plane, and if you get one I know you’ll enjoy it. Best of luck. An 18,000+ hour pilot.

Answer by Motorpsycho
Don’t get a Piper. Piper stands for…
Problem
Infested
Poorly
Engineered
Rubbish

Answer by karenb
A twin, something like a Cessna 310 turbo. Cruise at 205 kts at 15000 ft, useful load of 1900 lbs. Burns 22 gph though but speed and cargo cost. I have a Cessna 320 and love it. Don’t waste your time with a single.

Answer by Grammar=Fun
You’ve gotten some good suggestions about particular aircraft. Definitely do a little flying in the models of airplane you’re interested in before you buy; find a place to rent. You’ll find out that some brands have traded comfort for speed. 200 MPH is great, but not if you’re packed in like a sardine. One airplane which hasn’t come up yet is the Beech 33 Debonair; that would meet all your requirements–speed, useful load, low wing, and budget–and some you didn’t mention, such as good quality and comfort. On the other hand, if you don’t want to go the retract route, don’t overlook the Beech Sundowner. It’s no speed demon, but is it well-behaved, comfortable, and has a decent useful load.

There’s too much to say here about overhaul issues. It’s a very complex subject. (You really need to make friends with a mechanic to get a full explanation, or ask separate questions, one at a time.) For an overview, the issue with engine time depends on you. Some people would prefer to buy an airplane with a newly overhauled engine. They believe that this means no problems. But, they’re wrong, in part because an owner who is about to sell and buys an overhaul isn’t likely to pay for the best quality work. They’re also wrong because, even with a good overhaul, there is a break-in period, and if the engine isn’t flown properly during the first 50 hours or so, it can mean costly problems later. I would personally avoid an engine with under 200 hours since overhaul.

Other people would prefer to buy an airplane with a “run-out” engine, one that needs to be overhauled. That way they can make sure it’s done right. I think that makes sense, though the overhaul then needs to be figured into the “real” price of the airplane. (I wouldn’t buy a plane with a new paint job either; who knows what they were trying to cover up!)

For mid-time engines, it can be difficult to know what to think, though there are some general guidelines. The more recent the overhaul (in calendar time), the better; engines are harmed by sitting unused. The kind of use also matters; lots of smooth-run cross-country time is better than a training environment.

The amount of time you’ll get between overhauls depends on many factors. The engine manufacturer, of course, specifies intervals (both in hours and calendar years), but you’re generally not required to follow those. Some engines go well past the “TBO” (time between overhaul); others don’t get close. Even with proper operation, it’s quite common to have one or more cylinders replaced (a “top overhaul”) between “major overhauls.”

As to how long the airframe will last, the general answer is “indefinitely.” What really matters is how it’s cared for. But, that doesn’t apply to all situations; there are aircraft with limited life components. (The wings on the Piper Tomahawk are scrap after 11,000 hours, for instance. Some newer aircraft have life limits for the entire airframe.) As for time, look at it this way. Suppose you buy an airplane which is considered to have a mid-time airframe, perhaps 4,500 hours. Now, suppose you fly that airplane two hours every single week for 40 years. You’re still not over 10,000 hours. Condition matters more than the hour count.

There are way too many other tips to list here. Get a good book AND make friends with a mechanic. I will give you two tips, though. First, make sure to get a good title search before you buy. Assuming you’re in the U.S., you can do this through AOPA (an organization you should have already joined if you value your flying privileges). Second, have the airplane inspected by YOUR mechanic before you buy it, but don’t accept a “pre-purchase” inspection–as there’s no such thing, it’s just whatever the mechanic makes up. Insist on an ANNUAL inspection, because that has standards.

With private and, I’m assuming, single-engine land, you’re good for most any airplane with just one engine. There are, of course, little exceptions, as you mention. For the kind of aircraft you’re probably looking at, you will need high-performance and complex endorsements (which you can get from any CFI familiar with the airplane). If you’re a proficient pilot, your insurance company is likely to require a greater number of hours than you’ll actually need to become capable in such an airplane; definitely include your aircraft insurance agent as part of your shopping checklist. Plan to get your instrument rating if you don’t like paying high insurance premiums. You’ll get a rate break for that. Depending on your insurance company, you’ll also get a rate break when you get a certain number of hours total and/or a certain number of hours in make and model. Again, your agent can tell you specifics.

I mentioned AOPA above. They have more good resources, including a very nice package they send to members (who request it) that includes lots of good information–articles, etc.–on purchasing. Again, if you haven’t joined, do it before you buy. You won’t regret it. (You’ll also find that they have aviation-related forums on their site where you may be able to get more focused, helpful answers.)

Answer by Chad H
i would say a mooney of some kind, its cheap and its effiecient, the operating hours are fairly small…